Comments on: What Is Out of the Box? http://kallistipress.com/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/ Games for the Prettiest One Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:27:31 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Brain Dump » Blog Archive » Warning: Learning curve is steeper than it appears http://kallistipress.com/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-23369 Brain Dump » Blog Archive » Warning: Learning curve is steeper than it appears Fri, 09 May 2008 05:31:07 +0000 http://kallistipress.com/blog/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/#comment-23369 [...] discussing “out of the box” games. Joshua BishopRoby summed things up nicely in What is Out-of-the-Box?. It is not really necessary for you to have read all of that in order to follow what I am going to [...] [...] discussing “out of the box” games. Joshua BishopRoby summed things up nicely in What is Out-of-the-Box?. It is not really necessary for you to have read all of that in order to follow what I am going to [...]

]]> By: Musings and Mental Meanderings » Blog Archive » Warning: Learning curve is steeper than it appears http://kallistipress.com/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-3703 Musings and Mental Meanderings » Blog Archive » Warning: Learning curve is steeper than it appears Fri, 05 May 2006 02:48:58 +0000 http://kallistipress.com/blog/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/#comment-3703 [...] Back in early April there was a brief flurry of activity discussing “out of the box” games. Joshua BishopRoby summed things up nicely in What is Out-of-the-Box?. It is not really necessary for you to have read all of that in order to follow what I am going to talk about here, but it is a bit of context you may find useful. [...] [...] Back in early April there was a brief flurry of activity discussing “out of the box” games. Joshua BishopRoby summed things up nicely in What is Out-of-the-Box?. It is not really necessary for you to have read all of that in order to follow what I am going to talk about here, but it is a bit of context you may find useful. [...]

]]> By: Joshua BishopRoby http://kallistipress.com/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-2077 Joshua BishopRoby Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:53:32 +0000 http://kallistipress.com/blog/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/#comment-2077 Has anyone said, "I am a game designer, and I create an experience, put it in a box, and sell it to people?" Of course not. Have a lot of designers hedged into that territory in how they talk to each other? Yes -- but not consciously. And that's the power of language, and why I try to be really really careful with the terms that I use. <small>Yes, I'm obsessive.</small> Has anyone said, “I am a game designer, and I create an experience, put it in a box, and sell it to people?” Of course not. Have a lot of designers hedged into that territory in how they talk to each other? Yes — but not consciously. And that’s the power of language, and why I try to be really really careful with the terms that I use. Yes, I’m obsessive.

]]> By: Gerald Cameron http://kallistipress.com/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/comment-page-1/#comment-2051 Gerald Cameron Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:58:06 +0000 http://kallistipress.com/blog/2006-04-10/what-is-out-of-the-box/#comment-2051 <blockquote>So why am I railing against using this “Out of the Box” term? Because it short-changes players. It denigrates their creativity. It does not recognize that players are being creative and taking control of their own fun at the table. It suggests that all they are doing is following rules, that the high-almighty gamebook is the sole source of good times, and if you’re not having fun what you need is a better gamebook. That is all utter crap. I’m sure that’s not what Nir means — not at all — but I think it’s a dangerous possibility if we start thinking that we game designers are packaging up experiences and selling them to players.</blockquote> Wow, Joshua, have you ever actually heard anyone, player or designer, espouse such an idea? I haven't, and if I did, I have to admit that I would be right beside you storming their Bastille. When I was reading your replies to the original thread I was rather amazed by your vehemence against the idea of "Out of the Box" in RPGs. If this is what you were getting at, it makes a lot more sense, but I'm not sure how it became something you are concerned about.

So why am I railing against using this “Out of the Box” term? Because it short-changes players. It denigrates their creativity. It does not recognize that players are being creative and taking control of their own fun at the table. It suggests that all they are doing is following rules, that the high-almighty gamebook is the sole source of good times, and if you’re not having fun what you need is a better gamebook. That is all utter crap. I’m sure that’s not what Nir means — not at all — but I think it’s a dangerous possibility if we start thinking that we game designers are packaging up experiences and selling them to players.

Wow, Joshua, have you ever actually heard anyone, player or designer, espouse such an idea? I haven’t, and if I did, I have to admit that I would be right beside you storming their Bastille.

When I was reading your replies to the original thread I was rather amazed by your vehemence against the idea of “Out of the Box” in RPGs. If this is what you were getting at, it makes a lot more sense, but I’m not sure how it became something you are concerned about.

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