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	<title>Comments on: Star Trek, Star Trek, and America&#8217;s Addiction to Being the Underdog</title>
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	<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/</link>
	<description>Games for the Prettiest One</description>
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		<title>By: Seth A. Roby</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43350</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth A. Roby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 18:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43350</guid>
		<description>Maybe those four lines are in the director&#039;s cut. But seeing as the director is JJ Abrams, it&#039;s probably flashbacks to childhood memories that only vaguely connect to the main action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe those four lines are in the director&#8217;s cut. But seeing as the director is JJ Abrams, it&#8217;s probably flashbacks to childhood memories that only vaguely connect to the main action.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Roby</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43348</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Roby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 17:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43348</guid>
		<description>Seth, I would love to see that Trek movie. ;)

Hell, the current Trek movie only needs the addition of, like, four lines of dialogue, and then it &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; that movie.  But they didn&#039;t go there, and I really wish they had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth, I would love to see that Trek movie. <img src='http://kallistipress.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Hell, the current Trek movie only needs the addition of, like, four lines of dialogue, and then it <em>is</em> that movie.  But they didn&#8217;t go there, and I really wish they had.</p>
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		<title>By: Brand Robins</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43344</link>
		<dc:creator>Brand Robins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 15:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43344</guid>
		<description>Seth, 

I agree that Star Trek is a greater age myth set in the future, and that is a powerful thing. 

And precisely because it is a powerful thing, we ought to take a really close look about what the &quot;greater age&quot; actually is. Is it really greater, or is it... umm... highly problematic on its own? 

Through the various streams of Trek there have been some greater ages that really spoke towards trying to push humanity past a lot of the crap that we deal with now. But others have had slightly different ideals, or different ideals baked in under the surface where the writers probably didn&#039;t even realize they were sitting, that make the greater age rather less than appealing. 

(Of course, all of this depends on where you sit. I personally love the &quot;fuck you Gods, we don&#039;t need no stinking divinities&quot; episode. I&#039;m sure others don&#039;t.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth, </p>
<p>I agree that Star Trek is a greater age myth set in the future, and that is a powerful thing. </p>
<p>And precisely because it is a powerful thing, we ought to take a really close look about what the &#8220;greater age&#8221; actually is. Is it really greater, or is it&#8230; umm&#8230; highly problematic on its own? </p>
<p>Through the various streams of Trek there have been some greater ages that really spoke towards trying to push humanity past a lot of the crap that we deal with now. But others have had slightly different ideals, or different ideals baked in under the surface where the writers probably didn&#8217;t even realize they were sitting, that make the greater age rather less than appealing. </p>
<p>(Of course, all of this depends on where you sit. I personally love the &#8220;fuck you Gods, we don&#8217;t need no stinking divinities&#8221; episode. I&#8217;m sure others don&#8217;t.)</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Klutzke</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43338</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Klutzke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 13:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43338</guid>
		<description>*applause*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*applause*</p>
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		<title>By: Seth A. Roby</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43322</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth A. Roby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 04:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43322</guid>
		<description>Well, yes, but...

Star Trek speaks to the 60s, when liberal internationalism was new enough that it needed to be explained. And in very rough terms, you can say that the Federation is the UN, trying to go about and make the universe a better place by finding allies and sharing Science and stopping wars. The Enterprise is a science vessel that just-so-happens to get into a lot of trouble.

And now we&#039;re in an age when the UN has been systematically discredited by a generation that has claimed that it is ineffectual. Star Trek could be about serving that higher calling (&quot;don&#039;t you feel that you were meant for something more&quot;) and doing the right thing (rescue mission to Vulcan) for the greater good (&quot;it&#039;s exciting!&quot;). I&#039;m not saying that the new movie IS about those things, but I think that part of the appeal of the franchise, and one of the reasons that it can come back and speak powerfully at this particular moment, is that it speaks in this language of cooperation and higher ideals that matches the public mood.

The link I Twittered earlier today http://bit.ly/AmLfJ makes the point that Star Trek is really a &quot;greater age&quot; myth that is set in the future, and is thus a potential to strive for instead of the common glorious-but-lost past that most such myths are. That&#039;s a powerful thing, and resonates powerfully with that recent campaign about HOPE we just went through. It&#039;s a new day indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yes, but&#8230;</p>
<p>Star Trek speaks to the 60s, when liberal internationalism was new enough that it needed to be explained. And in very rough terms, you can say that the Federation is the UN, trying to go about and make the universe a better place by finding allies and sharing Science and stopping wars. The Enterprise is a science vessel that just-so-happens to get into a lot of trouble.</p>
<p>And now we&#8217;re in an age when the UN has been systematically discredited by a generation that has claimed that it is ineffectual. Star Trek could be about serving that higher calling (&#8221;don&#8217;t you feel that you were meant for something more&#8221;) and doing the right thing (rescue mission to Vulcan) for the greater good (&#8221;it&#8217;s exciting!&#8221;). I&#8217;m not saying that the new movie IS about those things, but I think that part of the appeal of the franchise, and one of the reasons that it can come back and speak powerfully at this particular moment, is that it speaks in this language of cooperation and higher ideals that matches the public mood.</p>
<p>The link I Twittered earlier today <a href="http://bit.ly/AmLfJ" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/AmLfJ</a> makes the point that Star Trek is really a &#8220;greater age&#8221; myth that is set in the future, and is thus a potential to strive for instead of the common glorious-but-lost past that most such myths are. That&#8217;s a powerful thing, and resonates powerfully with that recent campaign about HOPE we just went through. It&#8217;s a new day indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Brand Robins</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43321</link>
		<dc:creator>Brand Robins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 03:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43321</guid>
		<description>Josh, 

I agree. And for the record, when I say &quot;fascism&quot; in this context I&#039;m talking, roughly, about Eco&#039;s &quot;Ur Facism.&quot; (http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html)

(Specifically points 3, 4, 6, Majorly 8, 11, and 13 -- especially with the cult of the captain.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, </p>
<p>I agree. And for the record, when I say &#8220;fascism&#8221; in this context I&#8217;m talking, roughly, about Eco&#8217;s &#8220;Ur Facism.&#8221; (<a href="http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html</a>)</p>
<p>(Specifically points 3, 4, 6, Majorly 8, 11, and 13 &#8212; especially with the cult of the captain.)</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Roby</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43308</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Roby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 23:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43308</guid>
		<description>Mmmmmaybe?  Now I&#039;m curious, you have any recollection of where? ;)

I suppose the underdog thing is related to fascism, although I tend to define fascism a little more narrowly than the rest of the internet (ie, not as a synonym for &#039;bad&#039;).  I&#039;m just tired of:
   Act One: Lookit the Badass Protagonist!
   Act Two: Uh-oh, the Antagonist even MORE Badass!
   Act Three: Oh, but the Protagonist wins in the end!

Trek used to be about things.  Abrams&#039; Trek is about explosions in space.  I want to find the way back to where creative endeavor meant something again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmmmaybe?  Now I&#8217;m curious, you have any recollection of where? <img src='http://kallistipress.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I suppose the underdog thing is related to fascism, although I tend to define fascism a little more narrowly than the rest of the internet (ie, not as a synonym for &#8216;bad&#8217;).  I&#8217;m just tired of:<br />
   Act One: Lookit the Badass Protagonist!<br />
   Act Two: Uh-oh, the Antagonist even MORE Badass!<br />
   Act Three: Oh, but the Protagonist wins in the end!</p>
<p>Trek used to be about things.  Abrams&#8217; Trek is about explosions in space.  I want to find the way back to where creative endeavor meant something again.</p>
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		<title>By: Brand Robins</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43306</link>
		<dc:creator>Brand Robins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 22:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43306</guid>
		<description>When I made this same rant about 300 (plus the &quot;brown people suck&quot; ones) didn&#039;t you tell me to go soak my head?

;)

Anyway, yea. The ur-facism of the standard fantasy adventure story (which most movies of this type are, even if they have sci-fi or superhero costumes on -- its all fantasy quest literature) is pretty harsh. Even in the really good movies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I made this same rant about 300 (plus the &#8220;brown people suck&#8221; ones) didn&#8217;t you tell me to go soak my head?</p>
<p> <img src='http://kallistipress.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Anyway, yea. The ur-facism of the standard fantasy adventure story (which most movies of this type are, even if they have sci-fi or superhero costumes on &#8212; its all fantasy quest literature) is pretty harsh. Even in the really good movies.</p>
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		<title>By: jessecoombs</title>
		<link>http://kallistipress.com/2009-05-11/star-trek-star-trek-and-americas-addiction-to-being-the-underdog/comment-page-1/#comment-43305</link>
		<dc:creator>jessecoombs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 22:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kallistipress.com/?p=341#comment-43305</guid>
		<description>Well said, and thanks for including the shout-out to Forgetting Sarah Marshall. It has just as important themes as the rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, and thanks for including the shout-out to Forgetting Sarah Marshall. It has just as important themes as the rest.</p>
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